A story about the consequences of public poetry with Joel McKerrow

This week Joel McKerrow joins us as we tell tales about serendipity.  To find out more about Joel you can visit his website https://www.joelmckerrow.com/about

Please review, rate, subscribe, follow and like the show. Your support will help us keep this podcast going.

To find out more about R.A. Spratt visit raspratt.com
To find out more about Jacqueline Harvey visit jacquelineharvey.com.au
To find out more about Tim Harris visit timharrisbooks.com

Transcript

Rachel Spratt: All right. Hello, and welcome to real stories with random writers. I'm r-as brat, and I'm here with Jacqueline Harvey and Tim Harris, and today's special guest is Joel Mccarrow. Joel is a poet and author known for story beats and rhyme drops these wandering feet hollowed out, lungs and woven, and he started writing children's books, and this year he's had the book urban legend, Hunters, and next year he's got a three-part high series, starting with Penguin Random house. Welcome to the show, Joel Yay.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Fantastic.

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Joel McKerrow: To be here. Oh, thank you, thank you.

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Rachel Spratt: Thank you. So.

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Jacqueline Harvey: I can't.

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Rachel Spratt: Mean. Well.

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Tim Harris: Space.

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Rachel Spratt: In a moment. Tim, we're all book creators. Which means we're storytellers. Normally, we write our stories down. But for this, podcast we're going to tell them out loud instead. And today we're going to be talking about serendipity. Ok, Jackie, you're up first.st

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Jacqueline Harvey: So I'm up first.st Well, you know, I serendipity. Actually, Rachel, you've just been to New York. So did you actually go to my favorite place which is Serendipity 3. Which was in the movie Serendipity.

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Joel McKerrow: Kick us off with.

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Jacqueline Harvey: That you know you're back.

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Rachel Spratt: Told me to. Wasn't it an ice cream shop or something?

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Jacqueline Harvey: Frozen hot chocolate.

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Joel McKerrow: Called Serendipity, great.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Serendipity. 3. 1 of the most delicious things I've ever tasted in my life. And I remember years ago there was a there was a movie called Serendipity and.

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Rachel Spratt: Nicole and John Cuzak. That's the one.

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Jacqueline Harvey: And it was, you know, they went serendipity 3. And so we had to go there when we went to New York, which was pretty amazing, and the taste of frozen hot chocolate, you know, it literally is still frozen in the middle, but hot on the outside. So it's quite, and it's like a float bowl that you could pretty much, you know, you know, like those Bill escort.

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Rachel Spratt: Here.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Huge flip, ball.

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Rachel Spratt: Where she did that cause. She got a burlesque artist to teach her how to do it. I've watched videos. My daughter's a huge well, my older daughter is a huge swifty, so I know way too much about Taylor Swift.

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Joel McKerrow: I'm wondering where this is going with ice cream and and burlesque ice cream and Burt this is this is could be going anywhere.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Just it's.

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Rachel Spratt: Like the.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Shape of the shape of the bowl that they put the frozen hot chocolate in. But, anyway, so that's that's not my story about serendipity. I I've had some very serendipitous things happen in my life, and one of which is, when I

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Jacqueline Harvey: so we were in England, and I was on a on a book tour, and I had just written, I I don't know how many else random books I've done by the stage, maybe about 5.

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Rachel Spratt: 700.

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Jacqueline Harvey: And sorry. No, not 700, and we was one of the books that I had written. Book number 2. I

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Jacqueline Harvey: I like to have a visual prompt like, for when I'm writing a story I I actually put together files, and I I will search for something that I think you know the the house that looks like the house that I want in my story, or you know, if it's a play a real place, then I will get photos of that real place. And often it's because we traveled there. And you know, and I create these. You know, photographic journals, if you like. So I have. You know. Reference points.

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Rachel Spratt: When I when I did the Friday bonds that was set in the Louvre, I got all these books on the Louvre, and it was cool, because the Louv is literally like a rabbit warren, and it meant that I could use the geography of the building really precisely to plot my novel, and how they were like using the catacombs beneath to get from 1 point of the building to the other.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Yeah. And I mean, I don't know that people really understand that as children's authors we do tons of research, you know, and I often, you know, I'll have plans of houses and all sorts of things, and you know apologies to all the people whose homes I've used, you know, and given another name, too. But anyway but I was looking for I was looking for a house to be the house where there's a legend of a witch who lives in the woods near Alex Miranda school. And so what I wanted was like an overgrown derelict mansion.

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Jacqueline Harvey: And I thought, Okay, I'm just going to search online, overgrown derelict mansions. And so of course, you search that. And in England there's about 50 million of them. And I came up with this. I found this website, and it was just called location works. And it had all these really cool, overgrown mansions falling down whatever. But it didn't tell you the exact addresses of any of them. It just had like a coded number, and it would give you the general area, so it would tell you pretty much the county that this house was in.

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Jacqueline Harvey: so the one that I looked at, and I instantly went. Oh, my gosh! That's it! That's the one I want, and it was in the county of Shropshire, which is, you know, the biggest county in the west of England. And anyway, I just called this house Caledonia Manor. I didn't know what it was really called. I didn't know where it really was, but there was a lot of photographs on their website. And I thought, you know, that's great reference. That's really, you know, that's quite creepy. That's really, you know, interesting stables blah blah!

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Jacqueline Harvey: So in it my husband and I were in England, and I was working at this school in Shropshire in back, back in 2,012 it was.

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Jacqueline Harvey: anyway. So we we was staying in Shropshire for a couple of weeks, and so I was going and teaching in the school in the morning, doing writing classes. Then in the afternoons I was working on a book, but we would go for drives around, you know, around the place, and I kept saying to Anne, Imagine if you would find Caledonia, and he's like we are. Never gonna find it, he said. You know this place is full of falling down mansions. So.

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Rachel Spratt: They're always behind really high hedges in.

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Jacqueline Harvey: High hot hedges and high wars.

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Joel McKerrow: Have you?

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Rachel Spratt: People don't want you to know how much money they've got when you drive in Pass.

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Jacqueline Harvey: That's true. So anyway, we we were in and around the village Oswestry, and one day we were driving down this road the B. 4, 5, 7, 9, which I will never forget. And as we're driving along, there's a the stone walls, and got narrower and narrower, and the road got narrower and narrower, so you couldn't actually stop your car because you'd get, you know, whacked by another car. Anyway, there was a dip in the stones where obviously a car had hit the stone wall at some point.

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Jacqueline Harvey: and I just looked up onto the hill and I went. Oh, stop that girl! And he's like we're talking about.

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Jacqueline Harvey: you know. He's like, Oh, don't be ridiculous, anyway. I I had a an sl camera with a big telephoto lens, so I'm snapping pictures of it and saying, We've got a guy, someone's gonna run into us.

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Jacqueline Harvey: So we go back to the village. I say, I I walked into the bookshop in the village, and I said, Do you know who owns this house? What can you tell me about this house? And they're like? No, not sure. Don't know whatever. Anyway, the council chambers were were closed, the local authority was closed, so we drive back out along the road, and there was a Gate house. So there was a gatehouse. But the gates they didn't have like a fancy set of gates. Just had a farm gate going up to the big house.

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Jacqueline Harvey: because the main gates, as it turned out, on the other side of the property. So anyway, there's a.

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Joel McKerrow: You broke in. You broke in, didn't you?

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Jacqueline Harvey: Wait for it. So the girl's putting the bins out. So I said, Stop, I need to talk to her. And so I got out of the car, and I said, Oh, can you tell us who owns the house? She said. Oh, I don't know. I just rent the cottage from the real estate agent, so I'm not sure who owns this house, anyway. So then she says, but

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Jacqueline Harvey: the gates open and the car's just driven up. Why don't you follow them? And I thought, I'm in for this. I'm a convict. So I'm you know. So we drove up, followed this car all the way up, and there's a woman giving her son a driving lesson on the driveway, and I jump out of the car, and I'm just taking photos of this house and all around she stops and I go and say to her, Look, you know I'm an author from Australia. Blah blah blah.

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Jacqueline Harvey: you know. Can you tell me about the house shift. Oh, no, I don't really know much about this house, but my boyfriend lives in the stables. Would you like to meet him, and I said, Yes, please go and get him. So anyway, the grumpiest.

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Rachel Spratt: Her boyfriend a Horse.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Well, no, he was the grumpiest Englishman I'd met for a long time.

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Joel McKerrow: I.

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Jacqueline Harvey: He comes out. His name was Pete, he said. What you doing here? Why, he, you know, trespassing. This is private property, you know. She'll be here. And I said, Yes, yes, I know all that. But I'm gonna tell you a story, and he meant Oh, my God, that's a bloody, fantastic story.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Would you like to have a look around? And I said, Yes, please. So he took us and he took us all around the outside of the house.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Anyway, we couldn't go in because the house is totally locked up. This house had been locked up since 1,947. No.

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Joel McKerrow: Going in.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Lived in this house.

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Joel McKerrow: What?

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Jacqueline Harvey: Anyway.

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Rachel Spratt: Waste.

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Jacqueline Harvey: I know what a waste, anyway, he said to me. It's been bought by a development company.

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Jacqueline Harvey: He said.

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Jacqueline Harvey: why don't you give this number a call? Just see if they'll let you inside.

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Jacqueline Harvey: So of course this is the day before the Queen's Jubilee weekend in 2012. That goes for about 5 days. So I call, and I leave this convoluted message on their answering machine, not expecting anybody to ever call me the day after everybody goes back to work, and fortunately we're still in the area. I get a call from this woman, and she said, oh, we've heard your story. It's fabulous, she said. Would you like to meet Will? He'll take you for a look through the house.

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Jacqueline Harvey: so we go to the house, this young man will. He decides that he has no work to do that day because he's gonna spend the next 3 h showing us every one of the 100 rooms in this house. So we go and we stand on the roof. We climb out of the servants.

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Jacqueline Harvey: quarters, windows. We, you know, we go into the basement. We get to the basement, and I'm like, Will, what's this stuff down here? Cause in the basement? There's like reinforced steel girders. There's all this old telephone exchange equipment. And what have you and I said, what! What's all this? Why is it still here? He said, well, you know, houses like this during the wall were given to the government, to uses orphanage and orphanages, and and hospitals and respite homes and evacuation centers

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Jacqueline Harvey: is.

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Jacqueline Harvey: And I said, Well, what was this place? He said, well, officially, this was British telecom. I said, Okay.

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Rachel Spratt: Is it.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Unofficially, he said, this was the headquarters of Mi. 6.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Yeah.

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Rachel Spratt: Everything.

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Joel McKerrow: You kidding so.

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Jacqueline Harvey: I'm like, Oh, my God! My head is just. I'm spinning, spinning spin, I'm like, Oh, my God! This is this is an Alice Miranda story this, but this was also the the root of Kenzie and Max, as well.

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Joel McKerrow: Wow!

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Jacqueline Harvey: So anyway, I just couldn't get more excited about this place.

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Jacqueline Harvey: That night we get we get back to our hotel. And there's an email from a girl called Caroline ailing, and she said, I live in the Gardeners Cottage. I'm Australian. I live there with my husband, my English husband.

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Rachel Spratt: No, no.

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Jacqueline Harvey: So back. Yeah.

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Rachel Spratt: She was from Mi. 6.

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Joel McKerrow: Yeah.

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Rachel Spratt: And she was checking you out. Well.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Clearly. Anyway, she says, you know, do you want to come tomorrow and we'll show you the rest of the property, and the rest of the property consisted of, you know, a Swiss cottage that was 400 years old, the house that they lived in, a beautiful farm at Walled Garden that you just couldn't believe. Anyway, the most bizarre part about this happened months later, when, our head of publicity marketing at Penguin Random House, Dot, she called me, and she said, I've just interviewed someone for a job

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Jacqueline Harvey: in the marketing department, she said. She knows you. Her name's Caroline Ailing

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Jacqueline Harvey: ended up working on my books when she.

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Joel McKerrow: Wow!

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Jacqueline Harvey: Strategy.

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Tim Harris: Job.

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Jacqueline Harvey: On my books, so how she's been.

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Rachel Spratt: Keep in tabs on Jackie for MI. 6.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Absolutely. But you know it was

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Jacqueline Harvey: most amazing thing to happen to, and and actually that while I was there I also had an offer for Alice Maria to be turned into a movie from an American filmmaker as well. So it was like all these things, all these conferences all happened at the same time, and it was.

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Rachel Spratt: Because you're blonde and pretty and.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Just have some.

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Rachel Spratt: Confidence. And you're so articulate. You have all these wonderful things happen to you, Jackie. I've seen you. You're a force of nature in action on.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Rachel, you're very kind, but I don't know that that's always.

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Rachel Spratt: I would skulking my car. I would have broken in at night and got around.

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Joel McKerrow: That would have been another great adventure, though.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Good, and you know the funniest thing, the the real estate agents who are selling. You know this houses. It's still in the middle of development like it's still, this is what, 10 years later, more than 10 years. And I I'm actually a member of their friends of it's actually called Brergunton Hall, friends of Brigunton Hall. I'm a member of their group, and the real estate agents. After I'd been there and written a couple of blog posts. They sent me an email. And they're like, you know, dear Mrs. Harvey, we see that you really really like Bragunton Hall.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Perhaps you might consider purchasing, and it was like I could buy it for 5 million pounds. But I found out that Robbie Williams had turned it down, and I thought, well, if he turned it down on the basis that he didn't think he had enough money to renovate it. Then there was no way I was going near it.

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Rachel Spratt: Sounds like it would be good, though, like, if you had Jk, rolling money.

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Jacqueline Harvey: No, I know. I just gotta write the. You know the equivalent of the Harry Potter. I was hoping they'd send it into apartments, and I could just buy one of the apartments, so.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah. My mom and dad used to live in the coach house of a very wealthy lady's house in England, and it was like a really good deal, because they just had this like 2 bedroom house on the property, and then the really wealthy lady, she paper all the gardening and everything, and she has like 85, and had Alzheimer's disease. So she had like a carer look after her. So basically, they were given cheap rent

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Rachel Spratt: because they had to be checked out by the family and everything that they wouldn't take advantage of the fact that the woman who owned everything was senile. But it was just like a really great deal. This beautiful part of the Cotswolds and.

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Jacqueline Harvey: So that would be lovely.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah. Yeah. And everything was taken care of really nicely in their house is really nice. Yeah. So living on one of those manners, it's it's not to be sniffed at.

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Jacqueline Harvey: So there you go. That's my serendipitous story. So.

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Joel McKerrow: Right.

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Rachel Spratt: Joel, you are the one who instigated this theme. Tell us your serendipity.

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Joel McKerrow: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would love to tell you a serendipitous story from Montreal a number of years ago, and it kind of felt like a whole day of serendipity. It was one of those moments where I was touring, so I'd been touring for a few months and doing poetry, performing poetry at festivals and places and schools, and everything that I could

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Joel McKerrow: and we had a day off and so we were doing nothing which is kind of, I think sometimes that's when serendipity kind of strikes is when you know how we're so focused on what we're doing most of the time. I think we miss a lot of kind of the invitations of of serendipity, of life.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah.

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Joel McKerrow: And so we were doing nothing, and we were chatting. This is me and my friend Michelle, who I was touring with, and we're chatting about what we're going to do. And she was like, Oh, I think I heard about this tea house somewhere here that

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Joel McKerrow: that serves tea, and then asks you for a story, as the guy is serving you tea like I think it was a Persian tea house.

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Rachel Spratt: Oh, cool!

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Joel McKerrow: And we were like that sounds great. So we went along to this place, and it was exactly that, but we found out where it was, and went along to it on our day off. And this guy comes out and he pours you tea, and he does the full hike of the T. The t's coming all the way down from way up high, and asks you for a story as he was doing it.

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Joel McKerrow: and we said, Oh, we're Australians over here on a performance poetry tour. And he says, Oh, could you perform a poem for all of us? And we're like.

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Joel McKerrow: sure. So we get up in the middle of his cafe, he interrupts everyone as they're having their nice tea, and he says we're going to have these Australian poets are going to perform a poem for us, and then and we hear someone yell out from kind of the kitchen aerials. The kitchen window that you could see through a chef, yelled out, Oh, do something funny for us.

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Joel McKerrow: And so we're like, Oh, okay, we'll do a funny something. And so Michelle performed her poem about peeing her pants and got lots of laughter, and then I performed a poem about my. At that point I had long red dreadlocks.

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Joel McKerrow: Throughout 15 years of my life I had a long red dreadlock, so I performed a poem called The Red Dread about my long dreadlocks, and and sometimes how they would fall out of my hair and.

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Rachel Spratt: Oh!

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Joel McKerrow: Little rats around the place. So I performed this poem, and it was kind of a lovely moment. It was a beautiful little thing, but then the chef came out. The guy who called out, Do something funny, he said. Oh, I do a comedy night here in Montreal. I'd love you to come along. It's on tonight. Could you come along and perform something?

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Joel McKerrow: And we were like, sure we got nothing on. It's our day off. We'll do that. And so he just wrote down. He said, just give this to, because it's all kind of French names of, he just said, here's the address wrote down something. Just give this to a taxi, or whatever. I don't think there was uber back in the day at that point. Give this to a taxi and turn up here tonight and just ask for me. I forget what his name was.

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Joel McKerrow: and I'm

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Joel McKerrow: and so we went off for the day.

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Joel McKerrow: and then went along that night. And actually a beautiful little side note that was actually the day as well. We went from the the the tea house to. There's like a

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Joel McKerrow: a park kind of under a mountain in Montreal where lots of people gather. Yeah. And and we're like, what are we gonna do this afternoon while we wait for whatever this thing is tonight, and we took a typewriter down and we offered takeaway poetry. We call people come and and pay us $10 and tell us a story.

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Rachel Spratt: York, and people were still doing that in parks and.

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Joel McKerrow: Yeah, it's so good. Tells the story, and we would type it up quickly on the typewriter. Say, come back in 10 min and we'll have the poem for you about that story. And which actually changed a lot of it. Took it like serendipity actually of that moment is is for me that process like I gave you type it up quickly in kind of the pressure cooker of those moments, and I gave it to this lady.

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Joel McKerrow: I remember, and she just like broke down in tears at this poem like it really moved her, and and there was something about it I was like, Oh, I need to do this. So it actually set up a yeah.

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Rachel Spratt: Like old lady's cry.

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Joel McKerrow: To my other ladies. I'm all.

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Jacqueline Harvey: In box, so.

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Joel McKerrow: So I so I actually started writing. From that moment one of my creative practices has been to write a poem for somebody every week.

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Joel McKerrow: and and to give it to them. And so I've definitely missed a few weeks, but essentially from then, which was 12 years ago. I've written a poem almost every week for somebody, and and given it to them.

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Rachel Spratt: Percentage cry when you give it to them.

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Joel McKerrow: A lot, a high percentage. Would you give it.

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Rachel Spratt: Mainly to ladies.

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Joel McKerrow: No men as well, too.

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Rachel Spratt: I'm I'm I'm just. My mind is leaping places, but I'm happy to leave reality and just add my own.

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Joel McKerrow: That's my thought.

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Joel McKerrow: They're not love poems or or I don't think I've done an erotica poem for anyone like that, either. But.

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Rachel Spratt: Oh, I wish you hadn't said the words Erotica Palm cause. That was not where my mind was going.

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Jacqueline Harvey: It's the.

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Joel McKerrow: I thought. That's where your mind was going.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Come on!

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Rachel Spratt: I never think of those things. Ick!

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Joel McKerrow: So

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Joel McKerrow: we're in Montreal and back away. We weren't at an erotica poetry night. But that night we went along to this address that the guy had given us. We rock up to this place.

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Joel McKerrow: and the taxi is like, Yeah, you'd get out here and go in here. And and so we're at the kind of backstage door of somewhere.

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Joel McKerrow: and we look up, and it's the metropolis which is like the biggest venue, like Lady Gaga had been there the week before, like this is like it's it's actually it's closed now. But it was like a massive venue in Montreal where big names were at. And we were like, what the hell are we at like? What are we doing? Where are we at? We asked for this guy at the stage door.

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Joel McKerrow: He comes out, of course, on rollerblades like us.

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Joel McKerrow: cause that's what you do when you're a Montreal creative. You just rather.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Rolling, rollerblading shift.

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Joel McKerrow: So this rollerblading chef takes us into the metropolis

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Joel McKerrow: and takes us around. And suddenly we realize we're actually at the the showcase of the International Montreal Comedy, Festival.

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Rachel Spratt: I'm.

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Joel McKerrow: Is not just a little comedy night this guy's invited us to. This is like to be part of the showcase he's like, so we've got all the French comedians and you guys are gonna be the English speaking kind of interlude. You're gonna be the English speaking middle of it. Yeah.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah.

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Joel McKerrow: And so so we went from this day off now to standing up on stage in front of however, many thousands of people were. There

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Joel McKerrow: had all been listening to to French comedy, we would, had been sitting in the place, not understanding any of it.

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Joel McKerrow: And then we get up and we started with an aussie aussie aussie just cause that felt like it was the right thing to do.

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Rachel Spratt: Yes.

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Joel McKerrow: How many are.

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Rachel Spratt: Room. Yeah.

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Joel McKerrow: Leapt into my to my poem, about my red dreadlocks, and it went off, and it was one of those.

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Joel McKerrow: It was just a beautiful night there was. There was lots of laughter. They loved what we did, but it was just one of those serendipitous moments of going from having nothing to do on a particular day following the tiniest little bits of oh, let's just do this. And yeah, we'll do this. And okay, yeah, we'll do this, and suddenly we were performing at the International Montreal Comedy Festival.

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Rachel Spratt: Amazing story. Well, well done, you! That's awesome.

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Rachel Spratt: My stories get like the others, tease me because my stories usually end up being about death by the time I finish. Dog

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Rachel Spratt: is nowhere near as grand as that, because I was thinking about it when when Jackie said, Joel wants to do serendipity, and I'm like I don't even know what serendipity.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Don't like that.

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Rachel Spratt: Jackie, can we please leave reality behind spread? And I'm like I don't even know what the word.

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Jacqueline Harvey: I mean.

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Rachel Spratt: Serendipity mean. So I had to look it up.

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Joel McKerrow: Let's say.

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Rachel Spratt: The movie, and I still didn't really know what it means. And then I'll see. I know. I don't know what it means, cause it never happens to me. I don't have serendipity, and it was funny, cause you're talking about how, when you have those days off and you just go with the flow. That's when serendipity happens, I think. This is why it doesn't happen to me, cause I.

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Rachel Spratt: House.

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Rachel Spratt: I hate people and

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Rachel Spratt: Also, I'm serious, like. Jackie is beautiful and charming, and has a lovely, eloquent husband, and she goes out into the world like, I've got 2 children, and it's a similar situation. My oldest daughter is a golden child, and it seems like she has so much serendipity happen to her in life, but it's because she's put together, and she's pretty, and she's tall, and she's articulate, and people meet her. It's like, I want to make your life better. I want to make opportunities open for you.

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Rachel Spratt: I am the opposite. People. Meet me. Go!

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Rachel Spratt: Oh.

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Jacqueline Harvey: You're not.

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Rachel Spratt: How can we make.

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Joel McKerrow: Stop.

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Rachel Spratt: Life go that I never have to be in the room with this woman again. So I have very

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Rachel Spratt: so. I was thinking about it thinking, but I've done well in life, but

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Rachel Spratt: I tend to do well in life by just grindingly working my way towards goals.

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Joel McKerrow: Hmm.

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Rachel Spratt: And then I was thinking, actually, the times I've been the opposite of serendipity. The times I like. I always think of it as being kicked in the nuts by life. The times I've been kicked in the nuts by life have actually ended up being serendipitous, because, like.

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Rachel Spratt: if I hadn't been pushed out of becoming pushed out of being a comedy writer. I never would have become a sketch comedy writer, and if I hadn't been pushed out of being a sketch comedy writer, I wouldn't become a children's television writer.

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Joel McKerrow: Oh! That one!

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Rachel Spratt: And if I hadn't hated being a children's television writer I wouldn't have started writing novels. And now I've ended up being this brilliant, beloved children's novelist, because I finally found a job where I never have to leave the house.

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Jacqueline Harvey: And if she hadn't have become a brilliant, you know children's novelist, then she wouldn't have met me.

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Rachel Spratt: And I wouldn't wait

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Jacqueline Harvey: Have all these other fun things happening.

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Rachel Spratt: Post on Jackie's coattails for the last.

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Tim Harris: That's 15.

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Rachel Spratt: That lovely! So.

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Jacqueline Harvey: And to say.

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Tim Harris: But and.

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Rachel Spratt: Anyway. So I was thinking about all these things and the times I'd I'd been messed over by life. And then I think there was one like. There are golden moments not quite as glorious as Joel's, so I'll tell you the background. It's 1 for me, like golden Moment as a comedy writer.

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Rachel Spratt: So what happened was, I worked at good news week and good news week. At the end of 3 years it wrapped up, and it wrapped up for a whole bunch of reasons, but not the least of which was, we were all exhausted. I worked on it for 3 years. We did 2 shows a week. I was working like 60, 70, 80 HA week, and it was exhausted. At the end of 3 years we just like collapsed.

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Rachel Spratt: and all the other writers. They went on and did another show. I can't remember what it was. I think it was with Will Anderson. I can't remember what it was another panel show, but I was the youngest. I was 25. They were all like 35, 40. They cut down the writing team and they went on and did another show. So I was without a job. And this is the last time I had a proper job. I had 2 weeks that summer, working as a receptionist for my father, because his regular receptionist, he ran an insurance company.

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Rachel Spratt: and I went in, and I was in a receptionist for 2 weeks, and that's the last time I had a proper job for 2 weeks there and then I was like, what am I going to do? Will I ever get another write-in job? You know there was money was draining out of TV. Because the Internet was starting up, and it was really depressing. And my husband. Well, he wasn't my husband then, but he was my boyfriend then. He had been a good Newsweek, but he'd already left. He got a job at back burner.

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Rachel Spratt: And so he was working over at back burner. And so I was looking around. And then one day I get a phone call from the producer at back. Burner and I knew they were having a lot of trouble there, because the producer at backburner was a woman, and all the writing team. I knew all the guys they were guys I'd worked with at good Newsweek, a lot of them half of them, or they'd been guests on good Newsweek. They were all men, and she was, and

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Rachel Spratt: comedy like it was. It was the nineties. It was a lot. Sexism wasn't as

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Rachel Spratt: Taboo back then. And also comedy writers tend to be like.

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Rachel Spratt: they're all men, and they're it's a hard yeah. They're not very good social skills. She was having a really hard time running in the writing room and getting them to produce the material she wanted. So she had this idea, I'm going to hire the only comedy writer in woman comedy writer in Australia, and she wanted me to be her wedge, to wedge the team and work hard and force them to all work harder. So I'm like, Yeah, okay, I'll come and be your wedge. But she didn't realize I was like living with one of the guys

401
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Rachel Spratt: besties with the other guys. So I walked in. And I'm like, Hey, producer. And I'm like

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Rachel Spratt: the teams back together, and she's just like, Oh, she's just an L version of them.

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Joel McKerrow: I.

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Jacqueline Harvey: But that.

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Rachel Spratt: I was in there and I was working. I worked really hard, like I've always had a lot of work ethic. I'll churn out my sketches, but a couple of the writers. I they weren't friends of mine, and they were kind of, you know, when you're brought in as the wedge people try and undermine you. It's happened to me since I was brought in as a wedge on high 5, and it's a miserable experience being the wedge because the people who they're trying to wedge just undermine you all the time. So it got to the point where Peter Burner wanted a pay rise, and so they had to cut back the writing budget. So they had to let

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Rachel Spratt: 2 writers go, and I did not realize this, and the other writer had the good sense to go to grand a tennis phone off.

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Rachel Spratt: and I was the last hired. So I was the 1st fired, and it was like brutal. I was devastated because I knew I was better than the other guys I knew I worked harder, but I knew that was the reason that they'd all undermine me because I was making them work harder. So I was just devastated to be out of work, and having just come off a 3 year long job, and not having been there very long.

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Joel McKerrow: So I.

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Rachel Spratt: Went home and I was scratching around and I picked up life support. I started working for life support.

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Rachel Spratt: but after a few weeks my now husband and his writing partner became head writers for back burner, and they didn't have enough material because their writers were so lazy.

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Rachel Spratt: So they had to start getting like spec writers to just write spec sketches which they'd always had. You know, anyone could have written in a sketch like so uni students and stuff would write in sketches, but they weren't consistent enough quality. So my husband's writing partner, he rang me up and says, right? So we need some quality sketches. Could you just bang out a couple and send them in will pay you per minute of the sketch and go going to air.

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Rachel Spratt: And I'm like, Oh, okay. So I had this other job at life support. But I had the weekends off. So on Sunday I would just sit down for 3 h. Sit down at the desk and bang out 4 sketches.

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Joel McKerrow: Hmm.

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Rachel Spratt: It wouldn't be that hard. And it was so much nicer than having to go in the office with this toxic environment where people trying to undermine me all the time, and it turned out that they were using a sketch a week, which so I had another job, and then I was getting this bonus money, and it was like you got like about $300 a sketch which you know, at the time, you know, an extra 300 bucks a week for just.

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Jacqueline Harvey: But while Ali.

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Rachel Spratt: Work like I'd send in 4 sketches. They do one sometimes I might do 2, but usually just do one, and it'd be like, oh, thank you very much. You know. 300 bucks for a couple of hours work on a Sunday afternoon.

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Rachel Spratt: But okay, so that a back burner you weren't allowed. It was all about they would get someone who is from the

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Rachel Spratt: A. Character from the news, but they wouldn't use their real name, so they'd have like a fictitious character, and they'd interview them about something.

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Rachel Spratt: But the original it was based on the John Clark, Brian doors thing, where they would actually have the real person, so they'd have like John Clark would be the Prime Minister. So, and it was back when John Howard, Prime Minister, and they would interview. Oh, John Clark, John Howard! And so he'd be pretending to be the Prime Minister. But we weren't allowed to do that. We had to make up fictional people, but I thought that was stupid, so I read in the sketch, and something had happened at the Vatican, and the the Vatican spokesman was called

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Rachel Spratt: Cardinal Rat Singer.

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Rachel Spratt: and I thought, That's a really funny.

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Joel McKerrow: Yeah.

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Rachel Spratt: So I wrote up this whole sketch, and I use the guy's real name, and I said, and the Vatican spokesman is Cardinal Rap singer da da da. And so I wrote this whole sketch.

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Rachel Spratt: and I sent it in.

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Rachel Spratt: and they liked it, and they didn't fact check it. And they didn't realize that Cardinal Ratzinger was a real guy's name. And just so, you know, if you're up, Catholics will know this Cardinal Ratzinger is the name of Co. Benedict. He ended up.

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Joel McKerrow: Yeah.

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Rachel Spratt: And he became the Pope. He was German. He's actually like. I always find it amazing. He fought for the Germany in the Second World War. I am amazed. People don't make more of the fact.

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Jacqueline Harvey: He was a Nazi, basically.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it depends how you define it. But anyway, so but anyway, so I wrote the sketch I sent it in and and because Cardinal Ratzinger at the time was like in his seventies.

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Rachel Spratt: they got an older actor in to play it, and it was just fantastic cause. All the actors talk slower, and if you went past 1 min like 1 min and 5 seconds, you got paid for the second blow.

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Joel McKerrow: Like.

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Rachel Spratt: 3rd 30 seconds.

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Tim Harris: Brilliant.

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Rachel Spratt: And he talked so slowly. I got paid for 2 whole minutes, and I got 600.

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Joel McKerrow: No worries.

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Tim Harris: Hey!

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Rachel Spratt: And that was like, Oh, so for me, I think that was like one of my favorite. Just everything came together like I got to one up on the show by sneaking in the real name. And then years led the glory of it, being actually the Pope, and I got paid double because they cast a guy who talked slowly, and all the other writers. They were like emailing me. You were a genius. And then we were all trying to write like characters who were like in the eighties and nineties, trying to get slow talkers to do our sketches. So.

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Tim Harris: Get more.

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00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:07.970
Rachel Spratt: Money. So that was a golden moment for me.

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Jacqueline Harvey: The Comedy Era.

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Joel McKerrow: I love it, and I love that. It came out of like the crap moments as well like.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah, yeah.

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Joel McKerrow: Take what is when you're going through a crap something and

444
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Joel McKerrow: and find the.

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Jacqueline Harvey: I I'm actually thinking that Rachel's life is like, have you watched the marvelous Mrs. Maisel? Have you ever.

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Rachel Spratt: No, I.

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Joel McKerrow: A.

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Jacqueline Harvey: No, it is.

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Joel McKerrow: Brilliant.

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Jacqueline Harvey: Series. It's so brilliant, and there's a scene right, and she's in a writer's room writing for like a talk show host and all the comedy, and exactly the sort of environment you're describing is, I'm thinking. Oh, that's exactly what Mitch Mosul has to go.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah.

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Jacqueline Harvey: The 19 fifties. Yeah.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah.

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Jacqueline Harvey: And in fact, a lot of her

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Jacqueline Harvey: out of really awful moments. So I'm yeah. You have to watch it, Rachel. It's brilliant.

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Rachel Spratt: Yeah, no, it it I sometimes I think I probably should write a book about it all, because there's things like, I remember, I watched 9 to 5, you know the old Dolly Parton Lily, Tomlin Jane Fonda movie with my kids.

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Rachel Spratt: and they're watching it. And they were just so shocked by the sexism in it, and it is over the top, and it wouldn't have been exactly like that. But I'm working girl as well, and I think but I remember when I was 16 and did work experience, and they brought a stripper into the office, and you know.

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Tim Harris: And you.

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Rachel Spratt: It wasn't that. And I remember when I was 1st a secretary when I was like 19, and you know, being sent for coffee, and you know, people flirting with you stuff, you know these things. They they sort of permeated into society. They would. They're much more recent than you realize. And yeah, like walking into a writer's room because everyone's gathered around a computer. And you think they're writing. And you walk around to stand behind the computer and help and realizing they're just looking at porn on the computer. And you're like, I'm going back to my own office. And you just think, yeah, it's

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Jacqueline Harvey: And every would have everybody would have been smoking as well. That's the other thing that.

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Rachel Spratt: When I was a stand up. That was a big part of the reason I gave up stand up was because I just got sick of going home and having to wash my hair every night because of the smoke. It was just awful. Yeah. So it's it's weird how much our culture has changed in such really a short period of time.

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Rachel Spratt: Anyway, on that note.

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Jacqueline Harvey: That no!

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Rachel Spratt: Kim, tell us your serendipitous story.

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Tim Harris: My serendipitous story starts with a beautiful spring afternoon and a church picnic at a park, and and it was free play, and everyone was just doing their own thing, and there was a lovely sort of pergola that you know, that we sort of had as the main shelter, and I thought it would be a good idea just to start swinging

466
00:46:30.885 --> 00:46:47.120
Tim Harris: on the pergola, and I thought it would be a good idea to see if I could get parallel with the ground below. And that that was pretty cool when you when you're holding on. But when you let go realize that you're falling about 6 feet onto concrete is not so good. And so

467
00:46:47.390 --> 00:47:11.569
Tim Harris: I tried to brace myself with my right arm, which led to a fractured wrist, and and I knew straight away something was was not right. It was just this extreme pain. And so I I couldn't quite talk my parents into taking me to see someone that day that they they would just like put some arsenet. But the next day, after not sleeping that night, my mom, my beautiful light. Mom took me to the doctor, the X-ray, and so I had a couple of days of school and a cask

468
00:47:11.925 --> 00:47:18.319
Tim Harris: but having a an arm in a cost for 6 weeks is absolutely wonderful. If you don't like

469
00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:23.759
Tim Harris: school work, because if you're right handed and you're writing it right on, that means you get to stop doing the work.

470
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:25.000
Rachel Spratt: Yes, and you can.

471
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:45.130
Tim Harris: Fake it, and so I was good enough to to fake it sort of through all of the subjects, except for maths, and and unfortunately the the fracture in the wrist happened probably about a month before we had our math assessments, and I got a very poor score, for maths was able to do okay and everything else. But

472
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:52.589
Tim Harris: the math teacher came tapping my shoulder and said, Team, we're gonna have to move you into a different class, because your your result wasn't so good.

473
00:47:52.590 --> 00:47:53.250
Joel McKerrow: Oh no!

474
00:47:53.250 --> 00:48:14.210
Tim Harris: And that was you, you know, it was hard to take at the time, and so off I go to, you know, despite the fact, I didn't quite. I didn't like mathematics, and so I go into a different classroom, and there's 1 spare desk in the room, and it's sitting next to a guy named Dave, who, you know, we we would talk a little bit through year 7, 8, 9, and 10,

475
00:48:14.550 --> 00:48:26.459
Tim Harris: but not not much, not enough to sort of spark a proper friendship. And so we're sitting in in this class. Got my new seat and a new seat mate, and start talking to Dave. And then

476
00:48:26.640 --> 00:48:40.000
Tim Harris: we we realized, Hey, we've actually got you know. I've got a lot in common. We're both massive parramatta eels fans. We both have a brother and a sister, and we start absolutely hitting it off. And so.

477
00:48:40.010 --> 00:48:51.039
Tim Harris: essentially, the essence of this story is a a fractured wrist. Actually put me next to someone who will become my best mate later in life. And so we ended up being in each other's bridal parties.

478
00:48:51.040 --> 00:48:51.970
Rachel Spratt: On!

479
00:48:51.970 --> 00:48:53.060
Jacqueline Harvey: Impressive.

480
00:48:53.329 --> 00:49:20.259
Tim Harris: I rat bags number 2 is dedicated to David says to to Dave, my my partner in crime. And and so, if ever you know, I find social media is an interesting one, because often we will share our good news on social media. But there's some news that we just can't share on social media, because it might be a bit personal. And so I'll always he'll be the 1st one, you know, to hear this thing, but if it wasn't for the broken arm that friendship genuinely wouldn't have had the chance to develop.

481
00:49:20.710 --> 00:49:21.240
Rachel Spratt: A.

482
00:49:21.240 --> 00:49:22.770
Tim Harris: And that was ceremonis. Yeah.

483
00:49:22.770 --> 00:49:23.830
Jacqueline Harvey: Yeah, so.

484
00:49:23.830 --> 00:49:27.639
Rachel Spratt: The moral to the story is, you'd have more friends if you just broke your arms.

485
00:49:27.952 --> 00:49:32.947
Tim Harris: That's right. And you also gotta throw. You gotta fail maths as well. That's gonna be.

486
00:49:33.370 --> 00:49:34.150
Jacqueline Harvey: Did you ever.

487
00:49:34.150 --> 00:49:39.149
Rachel Spratt: Make like. You see, I'm overly concerned with maths. Did you make a comeback with maths, or was it.

488
00:49:39.150 --> 00:49:59.680
Tim Harris: You know. Strangely so through high school I've I've really struggled with it. But strangely, in my primary teaching career, I I had a bit of a reputation as as the math teacher, and so I would train and run workshops for other teachers, teaching them how to teach math in an engaging way, and what I really struggled with teaching was writing.

489
00:49:59.680 --> 00:50:14.045
Tim Harris: and it it took self publishing to start for for the change over to happen. And now that the the thought of teaching math genuinely scares me, and I just love teaching writing so much. So it's again, it's weird. We'd have.

490
00:50:14.380 --> 00:50:26.510
Rachel Spratt: I find if you're just naturally good at something, it's harder to teach it, because you don't know how not to do it. If you know what I mean. It's like when you struggle with something, you develop all these strategies to learn to be better at it.

491
00:50:26.921 --> 00:50:30.439
Rachel Spratt: Where? Yeah. Like, I'm trying to think of an example.

492
00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:32.102
Jacqueline Harvey: I know what you're talking about.

493
00:50:32.380 --> 00:50:50.619
Tim Harris: If you learn something when the the process of you know we we are intrinsically motivated people, all people intrinsically motivated, and when you feel a joy of learning something, and it's new to you that will then rub off into the way you present it. So as as long as we're constantly learning, you know. I think that's when teaching is that it's absolute. Peak is.

494
00:50:51.070 --> 00:50:53.390
Tim Harris: teachers should be learners like students.

495
00:50:53.390 --> 00:51:00.150
Rachel Spratt: And you make because I teach bell ringing, and I teach fitness like weightlifting and stuff.

496
00:51:00.240 --> 00:51:26.379
Rachel Spratt: And it's particularly with adults, because adults will give you heaps of feedback kids sort of like, just sit there, and it's harder to tell the way their brain's working. But you really get the sense of all the different ways people's brains absorb information. It's amazing, like some people you need verbal cues. Some people you need to draw them pictures, some people. You explain it all to them, you physically demonstrate for them. Then they have to go home and sleep on it, and they'll be able to do it tomorrow. And it's

497
00:51:26.380 --> 00:51:39.229
Rachel Spratt: yeah. It it is amazing. But yeah, I do find it easier when I've had to struggle and figure figure out strategies that it's much easier to explain to someone. Then, when it's just something that you pick up naturally like, I would never, ever teach comedy writing, because I just don't think

498
00:51:39.240 --> 00:51:42.559
Rachel Spratt: I could. And yeah, so it's it's weird.

499
00:51:42.560 --> 00:51:43.200
Joel McKerrow: Hmm.

500
00:51:43.200 --> 00:51:43.749
Rachel Spratt: Do you find it?

501
00:51:43.750 --> 00:51:44.309
Jacqueline Harvey: Hi! There we go!

502
00:51:44.310 --> 00:51:45.320
Rachel Spratt: Poetry, Joel.

503
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:57.289
Joel McKerrow: No, but I spent. I think you have to intention, because it came easy to me, and I didn't study it. I then had to intentionally go. What's my process like? If I

504
00:51:57.300 --> 00:52:12.599
Joel McKerrow: I think just to stand up and teach, it would be hard. But I spent a long time going kind of breaking down my process and going. Oh, this is what I'm doing here. This is why it's working. And this is why that's not working. And once I'd done that and kind of developed my own framework. Then it became easier to teach.

505
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:20.029
Rachel Spratt: Made a kid who just has a knack, and they think about it in a different way, like it comes to them naturally in a different way.

506
00:52:20.190 --> 00:52:39.730
Joel McKerrow: Totally. Yeah, like a a lot of my, a lot of my process that I teach around is kind of doing the 1st draft dump of something, and just going with kind of intuitive flow and tapping into creative flow and that kind of thing. But then there are those people who that just doesn't work for that. They are sitting there. And

507
00:52:39.730 --> 00:53:01.940
Joel McKerrow: I think majority of people, if they sit there kind of line by line, critiquing and editing as they go, they just end up getting stuck. But there's some people who that actually works really well for. And so always when I do my process I'm like this may not work for you. You might be someone who actually needs to go line by line and be editing as you go and have a go with this. We'll have a play with how I do it, and then you work out what it looks like for you.

508
00:53:02.240 --> 00:53:14.650
Rachel Spratt: 1st time I ever did a writing workshop, and I didn't know how to do a writing workshop, and I thought, Well, what is my process. What am I going to teach them? And this is when I was doing a lot of Nanny Piggins, and so I got them all to lie on the floor with their eyes closed, and eat chocolate.

509
00:53:16.110 --> 00:53:17.319
Jacqueline Harvey: That can work.

510
00:53:17.590 --> 00:53:19.889
Joel McKerrow: That's great class. They would have loved that.

511
00:53:19.890 --> 00:53:26.849
Rachel Spratt: Don't know what it was like at a really nice Sydney private school. I don't know what the teachers thought, and I and I was yelling at them that.

512
00:53:26.850 --> 00:53:27.320
Tim Harris: They have to be.

513
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:34.373
Rachel Spratt: Silent because I was always silent when I wrote, says I'm silent, eat chocolate, and lie on the floor with your eyes closed.

514
00:53:34.680 --> 00:53:36.530
Jacqueline Harvey: You'll enjoy this, whether you like it or not.

515
00:53:36.530 --> 00:53:37.040
Joel McKerrow: No, no.

516
00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:40.367
Rachel Spratt: No, you have to be miserable. You're a rider now.

517
00:53:40.700 --> 00:53:42.200
Jacqueline Harvey: No one's allergic to nuts.

518
00:53:42.200 --> 00:53:42.720
Tim Harris: Yes, I.

519
00:53:42.720 --> 00:53:43.300
Rachel Spratt: Of.

520
00:53:43.300 --> 00:53:43.690
Jacqueline Harvey: Yeah.

521
00:53:43.690 --> 00:53:51.240
Rachel Spratt: No, no, I've learnt the hard way. If you give out chocolate, you have to do the cab breed the 2 piece little, and because I'm really good at throwing that chocolate.

522
00:53:51.520 --> 00:53:51.800
Joel McKerrow: Hit.

523
00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:52.639
Rachel Spratt: As your wife.

524
00:53:52.640 --> 00:53:54.530
Tim Harris: And justified Tim. I can hit.

525
00:53:54.530 --> 00:53:55.990
Rachel Spratt: Someone between the eyes from like.

526
00:53:55.990 --> 00:53:56.310
Joel McKerrow: Wow!

527
00:53:56.310 --> 00:53:56.810
Rachel Spratt: Metres away.

528
00:53:56.810 --> 00:53:59.430
Jacqueline Harvey: I know. Has Heidi Jane still got a scar.

529
00:53:59.430 --> 00:54:04.068
Tim Harris: Yes, she does have a scar, and also one that you can't say.

530
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:04.910
Jacqueline Harvey: And on that.

531
00:54:04.910 --> 00:54:05.760
Joel McKerrow: I mean, that'll tell.

532
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:10.819
Jacqueline Harvey: We haven't killed somebody yet, but we're heading down that pathway, so we probably should wrap it up.

533
00:54:10.820 --> 00:54:32.810
Rachel Spratt: All right on the serendipitous note of me not finally getting through a podcast without telling a story about someone dying. Thank you. So much for being on the podcast with us, Joel, that was awesome. And thank you everyone for listening. If you want to find out anything more about any of us and the books we've written, and how to get hold of them. Just go to our websites. I'm@rasprat.com.tim, where can we find you?

534
00:54:32.810 --> 00:54:34.769
Tim Harris: Tim Harris books.com.

535
00:54:34.770 --> 00:54:35.500
Rachel Spratt: Jackie.

536
00:54:35.700 --> 00:54:37.479
Jacqueline Harvey: Jacqueline harvey.com.au.

537
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:38.980
Rachel Spratt: And Joel, what's your website?

538
00:54:38.980 --> 00:54:40.869
Joel McKerrow: Joel mckero.com.

539
00:54:40.870 --> 00:54:50.360
Rachel Spratt: Yes, and Joel, he does lots of performance, poetry and Mc. Work and all sorts of things. So you can find out about that there. Alright! Well, that's it, for now until next time. Goodbye.

540
00:54:50.630 --> 00:54:51.100
Jacqueline Harvey: Bye.

541
00:54:51.570 --> 00:54:52.480
Rachel Spratt: Bye.

542
00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:53.230
Joel McKerrow: Yay!